From: RA

To: Editor

 

I have been following your site and reading as much as I can about the relational model and other "models". I agree that the relational model is the best way to represent data at the logical level but that SQL and most, if not all, supposedly RDBMS products are incomplete or even in violation of relational basics.

 

However, in as much as I respect your priorities in life, I think that it would be productive for someone of your knowledge to critique on specific database products in regard to their faithfulness to the relational model and how to "massage" these products to maximize their "relational potential" and overcome their deficiencies.

 

Also, I think it would be a good way to promote the relational model if some scheme of scoring products can be made. It should be accepted that existing products are not good enough but there should be some way for the market to easily evaluate the choices so that they can use their buying power to encourage better products.

 

Also, it would be good if people of your knowledge can provide a "roadmap" on which relational aspects should a product implement first. Its better for companies and ultimately end users to have something working/shipping in the short term given that they are fully aware of the tradeoffs.

 

I have yet to read the THIRD MANIFESTO, but I plan to soon. I share your frustration about the inadequacy of the current academe in educating IT professionals about computer science, mathematics, software engineering and other fundamentals. The prevailing mode of learning is tool based with little or no core concepts. This is a reflection of the great focus on quick "time to market" above long-term utility. It might take a great "failure" due to lack of knowledge of fundamentals to serve as a lesson to IT industry to wizen up. Come to think of it, why not document cases of real world projects that did not follow relational fundamentals (as far as current products support it) and got burned big time for it?

 

Thanks for your great site and keep up the good work! I eagerly anticipate a working and truly relational database product. I hope you can share any news about existing and up and coming products that are faithful to the relational model.

 

 

From: Fabian Pascal

To: RA

 

Just curious: how old are you and for how long you've been in the industry?

 

 

From: RA

 

Depends on what industry you are referring to =)

 

I'm 27 years old and I have been developing software as a hobby since I was 18 years old, professionally since I was 24. Although I don't really define myself as a "business modeler" or "data modeler", etc. this inevitably forms part of what I actually do. In my experience developing solutions for small and medium scale businesses, the distinctions between these roles are somewhat shallow or even nonexistent.

 

 

From: Fabian Pascal

 

IT industry.

 

I could guess your age, time in the industry and your background (no formal exposure to the science of databases)--it is typical of practitioners.

 

Therefore, you are not in a position to offer advice as to what I should or should not write about. It is up to you to educate yourself on the fundamentals and then figure out how bad products are by yourself. That's no longer my job.

 

 

From: RA

 

It’s quite unfortunate for me that I was not around during that time. However, the most I can do about it is research and read about those times.

 

Its not that I am advising you or people of your standing on what you should or should not do. I do not pretend have knowledge or have wisdom even remotely comparable to yours. And I would never impose on anyone my own personal or professional education. It is not your "job" in any way. It is a suggestion that you can consider or ignore at your own preference.

 

And with all due respect, if you have become so frustrated with how things are right now (both in the industry and the academe), why are you still in the industry? Why not pursue other, less frustrating interests? Do you see hope in any of these? If you do, where/how do you think it will most likely be accomplished?

 

Additionally, with the current open source phenomenon going on, is an open source, volunteer based effort to create a good relational database likely to succeed? Might you be willing to establish or lead such an effort?

 

Again, I do not impose anything on you. Please treat this conversation of ours as that just that a conversation and hopefully a friendly one.

 

 

From: Fabian Pascal

 

Right, but that means you should learn enough to assess products on your own, not to have others assess them for you.

 

Sadly, the open source segment of the industry is not any different than the rest, and for the same reason: lack of knowledge and appreciation of fundamentals. This is a cultural problem in this society much more profound than just databases.

 

My work has two purposes: to do what I think is right, which is what I enjoy doing--expose the ignorance and perils of the industry's ways of operating. And to disseminate information to those few who can think independently and critically, rather than use the cookbook approach and follow the vendors. Those who do the latter are a lost cause.

 

 

Posted 08/30/02

 

 

 

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